- But that's because they don't understand the issue.
- Ahh, but hang on, hang on, hang on, Malcolm Turnbull is saying to me I don't agree with you, but when the backbencher doesn't agree with you what do you want to do with the backbencher? You tell him well take, or go jump, I'll go jump.
- They've swallowed this rubbish.
- Well look, it's not, why don't you move the motion to change the name of the legislation...
BARNABY JOYCE, NATIONALS SENATOR, QUEENSLAND
- BARNABY JOYCE: And you can go to Copenhagen, you can go to Disneyland, you can go wherever you like but the position of the National Party on this will be quite clear, to understand the word no.
- BARNABY JOYCE: And if we have to have a double dissolution on this, let's have it, let's have the fight.
- BARNABY JOYCE: Bob Carter is one of that group that has been denigrated, that has been ridiculed because he dares to say the word no. The only way to get the contrarian view out is to do this. We will fight it, we will fight it on the economics, we will fight it on the science and we will prevail and we will win.
- BARNABY JOYCE: I believe Australia has drawn a line in the sand over this. And the blue is on.
- BARNABY JOYCE: I think we're going to win on the ETS. I think it's going to be blocked in the Senate and we'll end up with a double dissolution.
- BARNABY JOYCE: Look, and I want a little red car for Christmas and if I can ill take cupid wings and float around the room.
- BARNABY JOYCE: No it's not going to get through.
- BARNABY JOYCE: The people who have to buy the permits are you people. You people buy the permits.
- BARNABY JOYCE: There's always sort of the puritanical zeal that says, you will conform lock step, goose step.
- BARNABY JOYCE: They just see it as this sort of socialist chardonnay rubbish that are dreamt up, that is dreamt up by people who are obviously have no real risk of having to pay for it.
- BARNABY JOYCE: They're going to have bring around this side of this peg, do a figure of eight back round that side of that peg, back through the gate.
- BARNABY JOYCE: We've got some other work to do while we are here. We're going to try and knock off the ETS, we're going to try and get some support around town. Otherwise I'm just going to be lumbering you people with a massive new tax and I don't know how you're going to pay it.
- BARNABY JOYCE: Why should you be lumbered with a tax that is given to you because the globe is warming, so they tell us, but this tax is going to do absolutely nothing, nothing, nothing to change that?
- BARNABY JOYCE: You leave them with a bill, you vote for this, you bring it in, you bring it in and foist it on these people, yes, absolutely. You know without a shadow of a doubt.
- BARNABY JOYCE: You're going to go broke and everybody's going to, you'll get some sort of exit package, you know they'll flip you a few dollars to bugger off and that'll be the end of it.
- BOB CARTER: And Einstein was indeed a very wise man, because all he said was this. It doesn't take 100 scientists to show me wrong. It takes one fact. Thank you Max, if we can have the lights, I'll take questions.
- BOB CARTER: But as Barnaby said, you have to beat down the door of every voting senator, forget the Labor ones, every voting Liberal senator, forget the National ones, they're going to vote against it anyway. The Liberal senators have to be convinced this bill's got to be defeated a second time. They voted against it once.
- BOB CARTER: I don't have a message. I'm a scientist. I work in the area of climate change. And as a scientist I don't have an opinion, I don't have a political view.
- BOB CARTER: Temperature has gone down and carbon dioxide has gone up. How is it possible to have a Prime Minister that believes that increasing carbon dioxide emissions are causing dangerous global warming?
- BOB CARTER: The temperature in 1958 is the same as the temperature in 1979, is the same as the temperature in 2005. How many of you in this room are under 50? There's been no global warming in your lifetime. None. Zip. Zero. None.
BRETT MASON, LIBERAL SENATOR, QUEENSLAND:
- I thought I might just talk about the national interest and my argument really was simply is this legislation in the national interest? And why are we doing this when this will make our country less competitive?
- BRETT MASON: I'm not certain that I am. It depends whether they're talking practically or as a matter of principle. Tactics is not my forte. I leave that to the leadership but as a matter of principle I think there are a lot of people who support what I said the other day.
CHRIS PYNE, MP, MANAGER OF OPPOSITION BUSINESS
- I was making a statement of the bleeding obvious which won't come as a revelation to anyone, that a political party in 2009 that seeks to present as a professional political party, must do so in a way that is united and not divided.
CORY BERNARDI, LIBERAL SENATOR, SOUTH AUSTRALIA
- CORY BERNARDI: This scheme is just another stake through the heart of regional Australia.
- CORY BERNARDI: Hardly the stuff of leadership as I would've thought.
- CORY BERNARDI: Immediately before an election, this policy of an ETS was announced by the Prime Minister, you know there may have been a cursory discussion in the Party room, I don't recall it, but you're not you know we're not in the habit of rolling a Prime Minister months out from an election on an issue that was you know so important to the public.
- CORY BERNARDI: One front bencher doesn't speak for the Party room, and particularly on this issue.
- CORY BERNARDI: Our policy was to oppose the CPRS because we didn't think we should be acting ahead of Copenhagen and knowing what the rest of the world should be doing, a very clear policy. We walked out of that Party room meeting, you know singing from the same sheet. You know the sceptics and the believers.
- CORY BERNARDI: The challenge for Australia, and the Australian parliament is to examine the facts of climate change and not just the opinion polls.
- CORY BERNARDI: The earth is not actually warming, we have still rainfall falling. We have crops still growing. We can go outside and we won't cook.
- CORY BERNARDI: The fact that Nick has publicly supported the right of back benchers and others to speak up on a very critical issue is certainly encouraging.
- CORY BERNARDI: There are more scientists that feel comfortable about coming out and expressing their reservations and there are lots of flaws being exposed and quite frankly frauds that have been exposed on the other side of the argument.
- CORY BERNARDI: Well I think that scientists need to justify their own actions. They will keep putting forward and saying we've got all this evidence, the evidence is increasingly discredited, why have they done it, what's their motivations for doing it? Are they afraid to stand up to the extreme green lobby?
DAVID GRIGGS, SUSTAINABILITY INSTITUTE, MONASH UNI
- DAVID GRIGGS: The science of climate change is very complex and it can be misrepresented or misunderstood and these are important decisions that are being made and we think it's important that they're made on the best science.
- DAVID GRIGGS: Australia is the probably the most vulnerable developed country in the world to climate change so if Australia isn't going to act on climate change then which developed country is?
DAVID KAROLY, EARTH SCIENCES, UNIVERSITY OF MELBOURNE
- DAVID KAROLY: There is absolutely no dispute that the climate system has warmed since the 1950s or since the 1970s by half a degree. Every single data source, including the favourite data source used by the climate change sceptics of climate change today as the satellite data shows a clear warming of nearly half a degree over the last 30, 30 years.
- DAVID KAROLY: Agriculture is also a massive opportunity in terms of not only reducing emissions but storing carbon through changes in agricultural practice because there are opportunities to store carbon in soils, or to store carbon through changes in vegetation.
- DAVID KAROLY: I am trying to raise the alarm that urgent action is needed to reduce greenhouse gas emissions to seek to slow down climate change and to reduce its impacts. If that is your definition of alarmist then yes I am being alarmist and it is very justified based on the science.
- DAVID KAROLY: Typically there would be one to 2,000 scientific papers published every year in the fields of climate change science contributing to the understanding of climate change science and none of those seriously contradict the conclusions of the IPCC.
DENNIS JENSEN, LIBERAL MP, WA:
- DENNIS JENSEN: The party room doesn't want to be messed around on this. The party room has got a very strong view.
- DENNIS JENSEN: Well I don't think a lot of people liked that. I mean apart from anything else, it meant that attention was drawn to us and it was drawn to the leadership where there wasn't no real issue there, I mean no one was doing any numbers or anything else.
- DENNIS JENSEN: With the party room discussion we got straight into the guts of the amendments with the ETS, where from my point of view that was not just missing the wood for the trees, it was missing the wood for the twigs. We were going right down into the guts for it, without addressing the overall elephant in the room, which is should we be doing this anyway?
IAN MACFARLANE, MP, SHADOW MINISTER FOR RESOURCES
- IAN MACFARLANE: Well Malcolm's shown, wants to show that we are a modern Party, it's part of the change, the evolution from John Howard to Malcolm Turnbull.
- IAN MACFARLANE: All we've got from the party room and I don't want to say, understate it but all you've got from the party room is agreement to frame up the amendments and to begin the negotiation. What the party room have said is that they want to be the arbiter on whether or not we vote for the legislation based on what amendments are agreed to so.
- IAN MACFARLANE: And I tell you, it's a small minority of this party room, I can tell you I know exactly who said what. And the thing that surprised me this...
- IAN MACFARLANE: And why have I got a flying pig? Because people used to come in and say we need a billion dollars to get this process off and the staff say "don't get the pig" and I said "there's the flying pig, when pigs fly, I'll give you a billion dollars."
- IAN MACFARLANE: Electorally difficult would be an understatement, I mean a double dissolution on this issue would be very hard for us in terms of an election to fight.
- IAN MACFARLANE: Even when the Labor Party were in Opposition, even in their worst days when they were changing leaders you know fairly rapidly, they maintained some semblance of discipline. We're a year from the next election and we need that same sort of discipline.
- IAN MACFARLANE: I guess a successful outcome is to get to the party room to agree to an emissions trading scheme.
- IAN MACFARLANE: I think if you ask the party room today they'd say you've got no chance. I'm hoping that on Sunday they will have given me enough space that I can look Penny Wong in the eye and say this is a fair dinkum negotiation.
- IAN MACFARLANE: If international powers balance sheet gets destroyed they are shot. Absolutely.
- IAN MACFARLANE: It won't be taken until the negotiation with the government finishes and I don't know how long that negotiation will take. That's in the hands of Penny Wong.
- IAN MACFARLANE: Its going okay, I must admit I get different looks from different people when I say that. Obviously some of my colleagues want it to succeed, some want it to fail but it's going okay.
- IAN MACFARLANE: Look, I think, it's hard to estimate obviously. The National Party have announced they won't vote for anything and so we strike them off.
- IAN MACFARLANE: No one should underrate how difficult this is going to be to get through the Party room a second time. People have thought about it, they'll expect, obviously the expectations are high and getting it cleared in the Party room the second time is going to be an enormous feat.
- IAN MACFARLANE: Obviously since this process started, the party room has raised the bar in terms of the number of compromises I can make. So the actual amendments haven't changed much from when I basically took the job over from Andrew Robb. But the compromises have shrunk quite dramatically.
- IAN MACFARLANE: Oh it'll be tough, but I've been there before.
- IAN MACFARLANE: Oh it's an even bet. I mean at least with Penny you know what you're dealing with, but she's tough, she's tough. I think she's a very smart woman.
- IAN MACFARLANE: Okay well I've got the numbers and there in my little black book.
- IAN MACFARLANE: Probably not, although we did have - I did have some pretty ferocious periods when I was the Minister for Industry and Resources. But yeah I mean this is flat out full time.
- IAN MACFARLANE: So there'll be resistance obviously from the department and it will be almost evangelistic.
- IAN MACFARLANE: That's the black book.
- IAN MACFARLANE: The reality is, you are not going to see another coal fired power station built in Australia. That's, that's a simple fact. You can talk about all the stuff you like about carbon capture storage, that concept will not materialise for 20 years, and probably never.
- IAN MACFARLANE: They're not happy because they're not getting a big enough slice, they want another 4 billion.
- IAN MACFARLANE: Until someone can show me a way that they can reduce emissions in agriculture and they can show me another country that does it, then obviously you are simply imposing a tax on one of the most vulnerable sectors of our economic community.
- IAN MACFARLANE: Well Malcolm has shown, wants to show that we are a modern party and wants to show that that you know that we can communicate with the 18 to 35 year olds who are very strongly supportive of an ETS, but an ETS is only one factor in modernising the Party, it's, it's not, it's not the raison d'etre of the Liberal Party, it's part of the change, the evolution from John Howard to Malcolm Turnbull.
- IAN MACFARLANE: Well yeah I mean I, I don't have that time frame. That, that's a nothing to me. I guess I lose a lot of leverage after Copenhagen because I can tell even from tonight that, and from Kev, from the Prime Minister in the chamber that that they want this before Copenhagen.
JULIAN MCGAURAN, LIBERAL SENATOR, VIC
- JULIAN MCGAURAN: No I won't be supporting an ETS under any circumstances.
- JULIAN MCGAURAN: I believe Malcolm putting his leadership on the line over this was folly indeed.
- JULIAN MCGAURAN: I can't think of another issue, other than say Native Title that would surpass it in relation to real fundamental debate and beliefs, core philosophy, it brings it all together. Every now and then an issue passes through the parliament like this, this is one. A good leader would have picked that up.
- JULIAN MCGAURAN: In 2007, and in post 2007 I have to say as a party we were intimidated by the force of the climate change debate. It just seemed to be the issue of the moment and everyone got drawn into it. Since then there has been a seismic shift in public opinion.
- JULIAN MCGAURAN: Look I think it has basically been more credible science has come out to counter just the one or two documents put on the table over this issue.
- JULIAN MCGAURAN: The Liberal Party did have a position but it got messed up by a whole lot of nervous nellies on the front bench I should add, who just believed you know we've got to avoid an election, a double dissolution. They had this fit in their head, they've mucked up the politics for us all. They've mucked up our chance. They've almost made it self-fulfilling and to speak about it publicly is nothing short of dumb, it's a folly.
KEVIN RUDD, PRIME MINISTER
- Climate change is one of the great moral, economic and environmental challenges of our age.
MAL WASHER, LIBERAL MP
- Because these scientists are some of the most eminent scientist on climate in Australia and one of the arguments you always find is the sceptics always seem to get oxygen prevail...
- MAL WASHER: I don't want you to do that, mainly because I have people who are sceptical who would feel a sense of entrapment.
MALCOLM TURNBULL, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
- MALCOLM TURNBULL: I will not lead a party that is not as committed to effective action on climate change as I am.
- MALCOLM TURNBULL: Australians are more focused on climate change than just about any other developed countries.
- MALCOLM TURNBULL: I am asserting my authority as the leader of the Liberal Party and the leader of the Opposition.
- MALCOLM TURNBULL: If there was an election held in the near future and the polls remained where they were, we obviously wouldn't win.
- MALCOLM TURNBULL: I'm confident that we will emerge from the party room with a set of amendments that will protect thousands of Australian jobs.
- MALCOLM TURNBULL: No that's not, it is, Alan, it's because they understand this...
- MALCOLM TURNBULL: Tonight we are putting the ball back into Kevin Rudd's court. The Coalition is, the coalition party room has agreed to sensible amendments, practical amendments which will save thousands, thousands of Australian jobs.
- MALCOLM TURNBULL: Well Alan this is the problem you see.
- MALCOLM TURNBULL: Well he's very approachable.
- MALCOLM TURNBULL: You're saying to me why don't I agree with you, and the reason I don't agree with you is because I don't agree with you.
MATTHIAS CORMAN, LIBERAL SENATOR, WA:
- If an ETS is nothing more than a big new bureaucracy and a big new tax, which in the absence of a global agreement it would be, then why would we go down that path?
NICK MINCHIN, SENATOR, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION IN THE SENATE
- NICK MINCHIN: For 10 years the left internationally have been very successful in exploiting peoples' innate fears about global warming and climate change to achieve their political ends.
- NICK MINCHIN: 2007 was a particularly difficult year for the Coalition, the tail end of a long government, drought affecting much of Australia, Al Gore in full flight, the public were easily persuaded that what they were seeing by way of drought and water restrictions and everything else was connected to what Al Gore and others were saying was happening to the climate and it was all our fault.
- NICK MINCHIN: For the extreme left it provides the opportunity to do what they've always wanted to do, to sort of de-industrialise the western world. You know the collapse of communism was a disaster for the left, and the, and really they embraced environmentalism as their new religion.
- NICK MINCHIN: I don't mind being branded a sceptic about the theory that that human emissions and CO2 are the main driver of global change - of global warming. I don't accept that and I've said that publically. I guess if I can say it, I would hope that others would feel free to do so.
- NICK MINCHIN: I frankly strongly object to you know, politicians and others trying to terrify 12 year old girls that their planet's about to melt, you know. I mean really it is appalling some of that that sort of behaviour.
- NICK MINCHIN: I probably have a bit, yeah. I probably am, I, the quantum in which human's, mankind's contribution towards global warming in my mind is moving up. The reality is that there is a case to make sure we lower greenhouse gas emissions. That's firmly established. I accept that.
- NICK MINCHIN: If the question is, do people believe or not believe that human beings are causing, are the main cause of the planet warming, then I'd say a majority don't accept that position.
- NICK MINCHIN: I've never felt that we should be constrained in examining this matter by fear of double dissolutions.
- NICK MINCHIN: People won't listen to politicians necessarily; we don't have the credibility I guess. But the Bob Carters and the you know Garth Paltridges and the Ian Plimers, significant Australian scientists who are saying the UN has actually got this wrong.
- NICK MINCHIN: The leader, whoever he is or she is, is the ultimate authority figure in our Party, but when you're not the Prime Minister you have less authority by definition.
- NICK MINCHIN: Well it's going to be quite difficult for the Coalition members to do so. We did vote against the bill in August for good reason.
- PENNY WONG: This bill may be going down today, but this is not the end.
- PENNY WONG: He's quite good to negotiate with actually, he's quite kind of straight I suppose, you know, we might disagree but he's reasonable in that.
- PENNY WONG: His job is harder because they're more divided, absolutely and they have a lot of people who don't want to do anything. I don't think the people in their caucus who have an ideological view about this were going to be softened or hardened by anything. I mean they're hard because they have a very clear ideological view with which I pretty vehemently disagree, they're not going to shift on it.
- PENNY WONG: Well I haven't spoken to Ian about that but what I think is this, we've got a job to do in Australia. We've got to reengineer our energy sector. We've got to reduce emissions from coal and we've got to find a whole range of other energy sources.
- PENNY WONG: You know what will destroy agriculture? If we allow climate change to continue unabated. I mean Garnaut's figures should be a wake-up call for anybody who professes to stand up for rural Australia. Ninety seven per cent reduction in agriculture by the year 2100 or thereabouts. I mean they are sobering figures.
- PENNY WONG: You know, in this job you're so used to people having a go at you and I'd actually thought I'm not quite sure what to say when he said something nice about me so, maybe a little bit embarrassed.
PETER SHERGOLD, TASK GROUP ON EMISSIONS TRADING 2006-07
- PETER SHERGOLD: There were discussions with the PM. There were discussions with cabinet. There was a ceremony in which I handed over the report to the prime minister.
- PETER SHERGOLD: The key message was go soon because the longer you delayed, the higher the cost you imposed upon yourself and the greater the investment uncertainty.
RICK BROWN, CPI STRATEGIC
- What the polling is saying is climate change is still important, but not as important as what it was, and that there are other issues that are also important, like jobs. When the two issues have been put together, people have said that they are - they increasingly believe that climate change policies will affect jobs.
- STEPHEN NEWNHAM: Public concern for climate change has dropped and that trend is clear. The margin might differ from poll to poll, but it's clear over the last 18 months concern for the issue has dropped.
- STEPHEN NEWNHAM: From between 10 and 20 per cent. That represents a significant shift in, I think in peoples' priorities to other issues.
TONY ABBOTT, MP, SHADOW MINISTER FOR FAMILIES AND HOUSING:
- TONY ABBOTT: One of the things which I think has disconcerted a lot of people is the evangelical fervour of the climate change alarmists.
- TONY ABBOTT: I think that in response to the IPCC alarmist - ah in inverted commas - view, there've been quite a lot of other reputable scientific voices. Now not everyone agrees with Ian Plimer's position but he is a highly credible scientist and he has written what seems like a very well argued book refuting most of the claims of the climate catastrophists.
- TONY ABBOTT: It seems that the world has cooled slightly since the late 1990s. One of the things which I think has disconcerted a lot of people is the evangelical fervour of the climate change alarmists because they haven't pursued their case with the kind of careful moderation that you normally associate with the best scientists.
- TONY ABBOTT: We embraced the policy then for good reasons which means that it's not a crazy policy but that doesn't mean that we can't modify the policy or change it or even abandon it should that be our current judgement.
- TONY ABBOTT: We want to be careful that we're not jumping on a bandwagon or being taken in by a fad.
- TONY ABBOTT: Well, well the people who will tell you as if it's as obvious as night following day that we have a huge problem and that unless we dramatically change the way we live, life as we know it will be under massive threat.
WILL STEFFEN, ANU CLIMATE CHANGE INSTITUTE
- We just have to reiterate the message that as time goes on the science is even more secure rather the other way around. We are having longer data sets, it is absolute much clearer what the trends are, there is no doubt that the earth is warming.
WILSON TUCKEY, MP, WA
- Well we have a leader whose previous business was hedge funds. I think he still owns one. And he believes in this market solution, I don't.
- A re-elected Coalition Government will establish the world's most comprehensive emissions trading scheme in Australia, commencing no later than 2012.